Chatechesis interview with Fr. Charles and Deacon Don

0:32So good evening, everybody, and you're very welcome to Radio Maria to our Chatechesis program. And I have with me in today online, father Charles Sikorsky, the president of the Divine Mercy University in America. Father Charles, great to have you with us. Thank you, deacon Don. Great to be with you. Good. Good. And I have to confess, I'm involved in the Divine Mercy, postulate here in Ireland from the Divine Mercy Conference for the last, thirty three years. And I must say I was when Liz White told me that there was a Divine Mercy University, I was saying, how did I not know about this? So tell us a bit about the Divine Mercy University. So Divine Mercy University, we are a graduate university in United States.

1:24We're located in the Washington DC area. We're five minutes from Dulles International Airport. And our focus is bringing God's mercy and the wisdom of the church into the area of mental health. We form, Catholic, therapists, counselors, psychologists, spiritual directors. And we blend the best of science with the Catholic understanding of the human person, the Catholic understanding of life, this life and the afterlife, all blended together, into our programs. And that that that's our mission. And and we're, you know, really we've been blessed over the years to have many students. We've grown from about 50 students fifteen years ago. We're over 600 right now. Oh, my god. That's fantastic. And I love the idea of a holistic approach to, to spirituality of involving the whole person in the in the healing process because often as you know that we know from healing ministry here that when we go praying with people and we often find that the the root of whatever physical symptoms as Carl Jung used to say that, the what what goes on in the mind, the body takes on what goes on in the mind and psychosomatic.

2:43And that it's, we often find as as you well know that stuff like unforgiveness, things come up rejection, hurts, anger, and often come up as the roots of the to the physical pain that's presenting in the personal illness. Well, that's right. You know, and I I like to think of it as an incarnational way to approach this. In other words, Jesus was both human and divine. And there's a human part that's in in that that's important, but there's also the spiritual part, and they go they're blended together. And so when we form psychologists, well, they need to be aware of spirituality and the spiritual life and the fact that we have a spiritual soul. And when we're forming spiritual directors, it's, they also need to remember the part about, well, where we are incarnational beings.

3:37We have the human side that need, they need to work together. Oftentimes, you know, grace builds on nature. And so oftentimes you can have issues where people maybe we all kind of experience this when we go to confession. Seem like the same thing every time. And we have weaknesses on a human level, bad habits and so forth that, we need to fix first so that we're we're fixed as we go along so that God's grace can have its full impact. That's good. And and what gave you like, going back the six years, what gave you the inspiration to start this unique, I'd say and I'd say it is a unique undertaking. I mean, it's something I've often thought about if the the connections between them and why don't we become more conscious of the connections of the of what's going on in the body and the mind that that how would how would affects us spiritually?

4:34Yeah. Sure. There so this the initiative began, a group of Catholic mental laypeople, a group of Catholic mental health professionals who saw in their work, they were very well trained at secular universities and in the secular world of psychology. But they noticed that in their practice, when they were open to spirituality and values and many, many, many people who come for help want to talk about their faith. They want to talk about the values that are important to them. And so what they began to see, it was like, well, our training is good as far as it goes in many ways, but it's lacking this, the spiritual element or the openness to, to God and so forth. And so they decided to start a training program.

5:23They started first with continuing education programs, from people who were already practicing And that went fairly well. But they saw if they really want to make a bigger impact in the profession, there was a real need to start training students before. And so they stepped out in faith to start this, university. And, they started this before I I arrived, but, just tremendous, testimony of faith to step out and start this. And, you know, God's providence has been there over the years and has has helped us to really grow grow the school and and little by little really become, a formidable, institution. And that's good. And can I ask what what type how many and what type of courses you run? Is it done on a modular basis?

6:18Is it done through diploma, degree? Like, here in in Europe, we do a modular diploma, degree, master's, doctorate. What what way do you structure your courses? K. So we have, four different programs. One is a certificate program, which would be more kind of like a diploma. That's for spiritual direction, to form people to help for spirit to become a spiritual guide. That's a shorter program. There are six courses, six modules that they take in that. And then there's some on-site training they have to come in for. Most of that is online, by the way. And then we have two master's programs, which are online. One is a master's degree in psychology, which is 100% online. And we get people from all over the world who study that.

7:11And then we have a master's in clinical mental health counseling, which is more most of the coursework is online, but there's a requirement that the students actually do a practicum at a train at a, professional site where they'll be supervised and they'll start to get to treat clients in counseling situations. And then they also have to come on-site, for short five day, residencies three times during. It's a three year two and a half to three year program. They come on for those. So it's kind of a hybrid. And then we have a doctorate program, doctoral program in clinical psychology. That's 100% on-site, because of the, just the requirements for training to get the license and so forth. So one doctoral program, two master's program, which are online, and then a, a training program for spiritual directors, which is also online.

8:08We're hoping to start some shorter modules as well that would be good for those who aren't degree seekers or don't have the time to become a spiritual director. Hopefully those within the next twelve months are gonna come out. That's fantastic. So you're catering for all categories of individual from people that just want to, learn and develop for their own personal use or to help in their ministry, but don't have aspirations on the academic ladder to pursue a degree or a master's or a doctoral program. So you're catering for everybody, essentially. That's what we're trying to do. And, you know, there's it's if you look at the crisis right now in the world as far as mental health goes, I can give you I don't know what the statistics are in Ireland, but I can tell you in The United States over the last three years, there's been well, first, it was a bad situation to begin with, but the rates of depression and anxiety and suicide have almost tripled, part from the fallout from the pandemic.

9:14But it's just a growing crisis. And part of the challenge is, first of all, there's a shortage of people who can help. And then most of the training which is out there is is is more of a secular vision of the human person, which doesn't include faith, spirituality, values, morals, these kinds of things. And so, we're really trying to fill a huge need. And so, you know, we're looking for people who wanna become professionals in those programs, but also how do we form, first responders like who can help, in different Catholic ministries, priests and religious who don't have, don't have time to study a degree, but could get some training, and in lay people who wanna help out at their at their parish or in their area, whatever, in whatever way possible, or schools.

10:07So different things like that. That that's our mission. Yeah. You have tremendous courage in taking on that challenge because it's a challenge for the entire church worldwide because the the the COVID pandemic certainly has hammered us spiritually, physically, psychologically, emotionally. And and we were only speaking about this this morning that fear was put into people, and that fear has never been moved in a lot of cases where we notice now there's nearly an addiction to the laptop and getting mass going to mass on the laptop in case there's a chance that they might catch something in in the church of the virus in the church. And my own personal feeling has always been and I'm probably old fashioned, but I I I sincerely believe that that God will not allow any virus into his house.

11:07This is God's house that we're entering into, and that we can be to me, wearing a mask is like it's it's it's like saying, well, God, I don't trust that you're going to look after me here. I'm going to receive holy communion and how could anybody think that God would allow anything near his precious blood? Just to me, it just makes me mad to think that that level of fear can be put into people that that surpasses the belief in God and his power to protect us, especially in his own house and receiving his own body and blood. How could anything dare come against that? Yeah. Yes. And I think I think hopefully little by little people are overcoming those fears, but it's as you're you're you're correct.

11:58It's it's it's a huge challenge right now. You know, and and you know how the devil works. The devil's always gonna put doubts in your mind. And and I I think, you know, he'll use whatever he can, to to create those fears. So, yeah, it's a real challenge. I think we need to be praying for our brothers and sisters and and encouraging them to come back, and receive our Lord because there is nothing better than receiving the Eucharist and and and going to mass and and and being in communion with our fellow Catholics and Christians. It's just we're called to that. Absolutely. I remember father Slavko in saying that this lady asked him in a group session one day. She said, well, father, is it okay?

12:43Now this is way before the pandemic. This is back in the eighties. And she said or the early nineties. And she said, father, is it okay to receive, to go to, to go to holy mass and to look at it on the television? And he said, well, lady, he said, you know, how would you feel if, I handed you a dinner in front of you here today, or if I handed you a dinner on television? He says, how would you feel it? You know? He says, when you're receiving a real meal, this is okay if you're in the position where you can't, go to, physically attend because you're not able to, but then you can receive a spiritual communion. But he says, but why you receive a spiritual communion when you're able to go physically to mass and receive Jesus body, blood, soul, and divinity?

13:39Says, why are you settling for something less? And she said, okay. But I thought it was a great way that he made the point of saying, look. You cannot be the real physical presence of being there, you know, in as holy mass when the priest when it be the bread and wine becomes the body and blood of Jesus when it's transformed to the Eucharist. So Well, and it and it separates us from our, Protestant brothers and sisters. We it's the Catholic liturgy is different. Right? Because you do have it is this this holy this holy meal. It is this real presence of Jesus, and and that's a great way to to say it, so people think about it. Right? Now, obviously, some people physically and and due to age and so forth aren't required to go if they can or they're or they're ill.

14:30Sure. But but most, you know, but then I agree with you a lot. There there that idea of just going through through, the Internet, some people don't fully understand what what their responsibility is and and what more than that, what they're missing by not coming to receive Christ in the Eucharist. Oh, yes. Indeed. And and I think that's and and here's where, you know, as if believing community where we're in in, I won't say conflict, but where we're in a contradiction with the secular media of saying, oh, you know, don't mix, wear a mask. And that fear and that message is pertaining is is continuing, unfortunately, at a lesser level, you know, nearly keeping the fear level up, nearly keeping people away from, especially here in Ireland, what we do.

15:23Naturally, we love to go to mass. We love to meet. We love to talk. We love to to gather, and we love to intermingle with each other. And it's nearly breaking a culture in this whole concept of, oh, don't mix, you know, keep separate, keep your distance, stay at home, and, oh, I get so mad. Well, you know, it it you know, it's it's it's almost it's it's anti human. Right? We're we're made for relationships. And the ultimate relationship is the Holy Trinity, Father, Son, God himself is a relationship. And we're made in his likeness and image. And so we're made for relationships. And we see, you know, in the mental health area, I can tell you, one of the biggest causes of problems is loneliness and isolation.

16:13And that's not good for anybody. And so, you know, obviously, yeah, the world wants to wants to, break that down. Right? It's anti human. It's anti God. Yeah. And and, that's certainly not coming from God. And if people would realize that this is a message of fear that's been driven and if people could only believe that, you know, they're safe and coming to God's house, you know, this is God's house who loves us, You know, I think he's going to let nothing happen to us in there. Not a chance. Not a chance. And people say, oh, what did the government say and the newspapers say and I say they can say what they want. Like, God's house is God's house. He's in charge. He's in charge of the world, and he's in charge of our safety.

17:07So you can go you might have dangers going somewhere else. You certainly won't have an have it come into God's house, come into a Catholic church. There is no fear whatsoever, and there should be no fear. So that's the message of of of fate. And it's a message, by the way, people see as being defiant or being a conspiracy theorist or not believing in all the the propaganda and the fear and the whole lot. And I said, yeah. No. I don't believe in any of it. I don't believe that no not one single individual will be no matter what state their health is in coming in. They will not be affected or their hate health will not be affected by coming to church. So well, I think, you know, when we take risks for God, God never he never he's never outdone in generosity.

18:01We remember that, you know, and, I think I think I think we have to do that. And I think, you know, the, the, for the most part, the pandemic has passed and it's just, you know, you It's history. It's risky getting out of bed in the morning sometimes. So I think we need to really think about that. Like, what and what are we missing? You know? And what how important it is for us to to be in in in union with our fellow Catholics and also to, most of all, be in union with our our our our Lord through the Eucharist. Yeah. Absolutely. And, you know, father Charles, that that's where I think your courses have a lot to offer. And, certainly, here in Radio Marie, we'd be delighted to have the details on them and and let people know where they can where they can access them and access the details on them and how to apply for them.

18:58And, and I must say, there certainly is wisdom in in having something like that here in our own country. I know the encounter ministry, I think, is going to start in September, which is probably a very not as structured as your courses, but it's I think they're kind of, I won't say copying, but maybe borrowing that concept of trying to match psychotherapy with, spirituality. And and and and my wife is a clinical supervisor, psychotherapist, clinical supervisor. So so at home, we have a we have an interest in debate on, as a deacon with seven children, that we have an interest in debate with when any issues come in for prayer that, you know, Eileen will look at it from the psychotherapy point of view, and I'll be looking at it from the spiritual point of view.

19:59And we've kind of learned that there's a merger between the two. There's a merge. Right? Well, you know, you have a good head start raising seven children. That's that's, you you pick up a lot of skills along the way. But I would say if your listeners are interested, we can find more information is on our website, which is divinemercy.edu. That's divinemercy.edu on the web. And there's more information about all we're doing on there. Yeah. Because it's, it's it's unique what you are doing, and it's unique in the world. It's the first time that I've come across a university that's actually really acknowledging openly before we you try and try and ease one into a religious curriculum somewhere.

20:48But this is great that your openness would say, and this is who we are, this is what we do, and this is how you apply. So, really, part of the reason that happened, part of it is that, you many it's a very secular field overall. And so here in The United States, many of the Catholic universities who do have programs kind of fell into just little by little accepting what the secular profession was offering. And then those universities which, have a strong Catholic identity, many don't have graduate level programs. And so we're trying to fill that need. And as you say, and we're not, you know, we're not saying we're God's gift to the world, but, there aren't many, there aren't many, there's tremendous interest internationally, but there aren't that many schools who try to do this.

21:37Internationally, but there aren't that many schools who try to do this. Well, in fairness, yeah, I I like the idea as well of being able to do it online from your own home and without having to travel anywhere. I I like that idea, and I like the idea of you're training spiritual directors up, again online without having to travel over to the university itself. I I like I like that. And, in fact, I like the whole ethos of what you're doing and the courage you have in doing it in facing into that challenge that's facing the whole church. Well, thank you, Deacon Dunn. I appreciate that. Yeah. And I appreciate what you're doing there, on the airwaves. Right? Getting a message out, preaching the gospel.

22:26Oh, that's great. So we're we're fellow pilgrims on the one road, on the one journey. So I'll be delighted to, now that I've it's great to meet you and to have this conversation and interview. And this will go out to all our listeners, and we put it out through the whole Radio Maria network because as I said, until Liz told me about yourselves, I wasn't aware. You know, after all my involvement in Divine Mercy, I have to ashamedly say that I hadn't come across Yousaf. But now that I have, I certainly will let our network know. We have a conference every year in Ireland here, biggest conference in Ireland, in fact, in Europe, and, probably one of the biggest in the world every February and a divine mercy conference.

23:16So we've a huge network. So we'll certainly let the network know as well that these courses are on offer and they're available, and I think it's a great contribution you're making. Well well, thank you very much. No shame. And shame on us for not getting more publicity out there, but we're little by little, we're getting the word out. Well, I hope this this interview helps. Thank you very much. So father, would you give us your blessing? I would. May the blessing of almighty God descend upon all the listeners of Radio Maria. Bless them and their families. Help them to open their hearts and receive God's grace to to follow our Lord each and every day. Lead them all to your blessed life eternal and and bless them and their families.

24:05In the name of the Father and the Son and Holy Spirit. Amen. Amen. Father Charles Sikorsky, thank you so much for being with us, and thanks to all our listeners for joining us on Chatechesis.